Play is a birthright
Our sense of culture and identity impacts how we approach and conceptualise play. Many of the black women Stacey-Ann Morris has worked with have felt a pressure to fulfil the role of the “strong black woman”.
Stacey-Ann is a learning experience designer, facilitator, and educator who creates playful, inclusive, and meaningful connections related to personal and career development in work, school and community settings. She's a graduate of Harvard university, a Lego Serious Play facilitator and has designed curriculums programs and workshops at several universities and colleges.
Things to consider
- Play is an act of freedom, and a way to re-integrate our inner child.
- Play is a a form of resistance, and a birthright.
- As play facilitators, we need to be mindful of people’s history with the idea of play.
Links
Transcript
Hello, welcome to the show.
Speaker:My name's Tzuki Stewart from Playfilled
Speaker:the show.
Speaker:And I'm Lucy Taylor from Make Work Play together.
Speaker:We are Why Play Works, the podcast that speaks to people, radically reshaping.
Speaker:The idea of work as play.
Speaker:today.
Speaker:I'm speaking with Stacy-Ann Morris to explore community,
Speaker:play learning and belonging.
Speaker:Stacey-Ann is a learning experience designer, facilitator, and educator
Speaker:who creates playful, inclusive, and meaningful connections, related to
Speaker:personal and career development in work, school and community settings.
Speaker:She designs, experiences that educate and inspire humans
Speaker:to imagine new possibilities.
Speaker:Stacey-Ann brings over 15 years of interdisciplinary experience
Speaker:in designing, learning experience for youth and adults in various
Speaker:sectors, federal government, higher education and nonprofit organizations.
Speaker:She's a graduate of Harvard university, a Lego serious play
Speaker:facilitator and has designed curriculums programs and workshops
Speaker:at several universities and colleges.
Speaker:Stacey Ann is also the co-founder of Built Out Loud, a personal
Speaker:development program for black women, entrepreneurs and creatives in Ottawa.
Speaker:In this episode, we talk about the process of writing a book on play as a form of
Speaker:radical rest for black women, the power of imagination and planning your joy.
Speaker:So Stacey-Ann, let's kick off with, what does the word play mean to you?
Speaker:yes, this question is great because when I think of the word play, there's one word.
Speaker:Comes to mind.
Speaker:And it's the word freedom, you know, as adults, Um, play taps into our,
Speaker:our natural state of being where it reconnects us to our, our inner
Speaker:child or what I like to call joy.
Speaker:So there's freedom there because it gives us an opportunity to let our, our minds
Speaker:wander, to being the flow, to connect with people, uh, to move our bodies,
Speaker:to laugh, to test, to experiment, and really play connects us to, to ourselves.
Speaker:And that is so freeing.
Speaker:So over the past few years, play has allowed me to heal.
Speaker:It has encouraged me to lean into a fuller expression of my personality and connect
Speaker:with communities And just try new things.
Speaker:And when would you say you last felt playful?
Speaker:So I have been doing plague experiments for this past year 2022.
Speaker:My word of the year is play.
Speaker:So I've been doing play experiments.
Speaker:Um, so one month I build Lego sets for 30 days.
Speaker:Another month, I dance for five minutes per day, like improvise, but the last
Speaker:play experience that I've embarked on it.
Speaker:Hula hooping.
Speaker:Um, or should I say, like relearning, how to hula hoop, it's Amazing.
Speaker:to pick up something from your childhood and try it in your adult body.
Speaker:I think when I just picked up the whole belonged guy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I know how to do this.
Speaker:This is why I did this when I was a kid, um, very humbling
Speaker:experience because I saw.
Speaker:Um, so I had a friend come over and she also sucked at it as well.
Speaker:So it felt really nice to be together.
Speaker:But what we did is we found a YouTube video, uh, from 2011
Speaker:by this gentleman called Mr.
Speaker:Hoops.
Speaker:And it's a music video of him rapping lyrics, and teaching how to hula hoop.
Speaker:And I kid you not my friend and I were up till 2:00 AM on a weeknight,
Speaker:trying to hula-hoop with Mr.
Speaker:Hoop smiles.
Speaker:And it was a lot of fun, like cheesy lyrics.
Speaker:Cheesy lyrics.
Speaker:Nice beat to this day.
Speaker:I feel like I kind of remember like the lyrics, like, okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Here's a quick review place.
Speaker:One foot in front of you rock back and forth is what you do.
Speaker:You gotta wand your hoop, spin, start to move like that, that, that, that was it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, so much fun, so much joy.
Speaker:Uh, yeah, so that, that, that, that's the moment that, that comes up to mind.
Speaker:Ah, thank you for sharing that.
Speaker:That is, uh, I want to have the whole episode of just you rapping Mr.
Speaker:Hoop smiles, that I just, I was getting my groove on when you're doing that.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Um, so I almost don't want to take away from that question, move away from it,
Speaker:but it kind of, we'll talk more about how you use play in, in the variety of
Speaker:work you do, but at a kind of conceptual level, how do you think play and work?
Speaker:We relate to each other.
Speaker:well, play and work are interconnected.
Speaker:Um, and the reason why is this place fundamental to the human experience?
Speaker:So if we value humans, we should value how they spend time at work.
Speaker:Um, I think for some people, when they hear the word play, they
Speaker:think of like ping pong tables.
Speaker:Maybe cheesy.
Speaker:I, I Spreaker games.
Speaker:Um, I love icebreakers, but it's more than that, right?
Speaker:It's, it's a, it's a mindset, plays a mindset.
Speaker:So, you know, when you play, you discover you problem solve,
Speaker:you collaborate, you innovate.
Speaker:And there are a lot of.
Speaker:Wicked problems and challenges in the workplace and having a playful mindset
Speaker:can help in solving these problems.
Speaker:Um, also like embracing play in the workplace can improve, you
Speaker:know, productivity and results.
Speaker:Um, I'm really passionate about like employee wellbeing, which is,
Speaker:I think over the past few years, people have been thinking about
Speaker:how they spend their time at work.
Speaker:Um, and then finally, I would say that.
Speaker:Play in the workplace fosters what we call it the three CS, right?
Speaker:One curiosity.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:So when you have a problem, like asking, like what is.
Speaker:Questions or what would happen?
Speaker:Uh, so that's the first C the second C is community.
Speaker:So being able to play is very important to sustaining
Speaker:relationships and it's contagious.
Speaker:And when you have experiences meaningful experiences with folks it's memorable.
Speaker:And the last C is current.
Speaker:I know as I get older, it takes courage to try things.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So play allows you to, to do that, to do that in the workplace.
Speaker:So yeah, there, there are definitely connected.
Speaker:I love that point around courage.
Speaker:I often think about how it takes bravery on the part of a leader
Speaker:or, or, or any employee to think.
Speaker:I want to bring a more playful way doing this to, to our
Speaker:workplace that takes real bravery.
Speaker:Um, but I think I like the word courage more, but it's, you know,
Speaker:at the heart of that, I completely agree it it's, it's not an easy
Speaker:thing to do for some, for many of us.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I totally agree.
Speaker:I totally agree.
Speaker:And that's where like, role modeling helps.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Now you've said that the common thread from all the beautiful hats you wear
Speaker:in your life is how can we design spaces to help adults integrate more
Speaker:imagination in designing their lives.
Speaker:And I would just love to unpack that and hear some stories and some
Speaker:results that you've seen when using this kind of play imagination.
Speaker:With the various kind of communities you support, whether that's students,
Speaker:staff, yourself, the black women, your support, just tell us more about the
Speaker:stories and impact you've seen from using play and imagination in your work.
Speaker:You know, imagination is such a superpower.
Speaker:Being able to visualize beyond your common days is pretty awesome.
Speaker:It's pretty cool.
Speaker:Um, so one of the hats that I have.
Speaker:Working with students in higher ed.
Speaker:And I helped them think about their next steps after they graduate.
Speaker:And the most common question I hear from students in the career office
Speaker:is what am I going to do next?
Speaker:I have many options or I don't have many options.
Speaker:What, whichever one.
Speaker:And so one playful method that I've used with students is
Speaker:role-playing an imaginary future.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Your life is your biggest project.
Speaker:So why don't you try to role play, go back to when you were a child?
Speaker:When many of us did that?
Speaker:Um, so for example, one student, uh, she was thinking
Speaker:of being a human rights lawyer.
Speaker:Not quite sure if that's kind of what she wants to do.
Speaker:And so I challenged her to go a week, having the mindset
Speaker:lens of a human rights lawyer.
Speaker:When you're talking with, I mean, you probably tell folks pretending to be this.
Speaker:Um, but what this does, it allows you to experiment at low risk, right?
Speaker:Because obviously you're going to have to go to law school after this.
Speaker:So is this something that you want to do?
Speaker:Um, and then also get some self-talk there, uh, and, and,
Speaker:and then talking to people.
Speaker:So she did us for a week.
Speaker:And she debated with her friends, her family members, she read
Speaker:articles, she tended webinars.
Speaker:She talked to a few human rights, uh, lawyers, um, what we call curious
Speaker:conversations and what was interesting.
Speaker:One thing that she brought up was that it really brought
Speaker:her, her values of fairness.
Speaker:Like, why is it that she wants to be a human rights lawyer?
Speaker:Before she's like, well, you know, my, my parents want me to do this, but when
Speaker:she was role-playing, putting on that hat, she's like, wait, yeah, I actually
Speaker:do enjoy this because the, the importance of fairness is really important to me.
Speaker:So that's one aspect of, of just role planning and trying
Speaker:to imagine uh, futures.
Speaker:The second hat that I've, that I have is I run recesses for, uh, for
Speaker:staff and faculty at the university.
Speaker:And so if you think about recesses, most of us, last time we had had recess,
Speaker:this was probably in primary school.
Speaker:Um, but there's a, there's a purpose for that, right?
Speaker:It gives you a mental break, Uh, um, meeting new people.
Speaker:And so the recesses I've designed like energizers and creative exercises.
Speaker:Um, and one recess I had where I asked folks to re-imagine
Speaker:their homes as a playground.
Speaker:So I didn't tell folks, you know, what they were signing up for.
Speaker:Um, so, you know, reimagine your couch as a slide, right?
Speaker:Or your staircase as a play structure.
Speaker:Putting folks in breakout rooms to meet new playmates, um, one activity that
Speaker:we had where they had to build a toy using random things in their house.
Speaker:So after the session, People, you know, there's humor, people were
Speaker:laughing, people met new folks.
Speaker:Um, I think with the pandemic, it's been hard for people to collide with
Speaker:each other, um, and then just kind of feeling like, okay, that was fun.
Speaker:And I can continue with my day.
Speaker:And also these energizers you can do at home with your, you know, you
Speaker:got other playmates in your house.
Speaker:Um, so that's that, that was one, the example of designing
Speaker:happenstance moments for, for folks.
Speaker:And then the last, uh, example that the last hat is, um, the Build Out Loud
Speaker:program, which I co-founded with, uh, my friend Marin, and it's a program for black
Speaker:women, entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, and we have designed a play workshop.
Speaker:And one play workshop that has really stuck with folks
Speaker:is unpacking place strategies.
Speaker:So one question we ask is how did you like to play as a child, go
Speaker:back in time and remember, how did you like to play as a child?
Speaker:And so that give them more of a reflective time there.
Speaker:So for some folks, they love to collect curate remixed.
Speaker:Investigate.
Speaker:Chances are the way that you played as a child is the same
Speaker:way that you like to play now.
Speaker:And so in that session, folks leave with a self care menu, right?
Speaker:How are they going to integrate those play strategies throughout the week?
Speaker:It could be really small and really big.
Speaker:And we had a couple of women who actually created like play spaces in their homes.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing those.
Speaker:And I'd love to hear when people are showing up to these spaces.
Speaker:So maybe we can take the example of the recesses you run for staff and faculty.
Speaker:Do they know what to expect?
Speaker:Do you find the same people come back several times or do you have
Speaker:new people who are, they unsure?
Speaker:Are they up for it?
Speaker:Kind of, how much do you let them know what you're going to do with that?
Speaker:Cause I think again, we have barriers or expectations or
Speaker:discomfort around these ideas.
Speaker:So what do you tell people before they turn up and how do they arrive and how do
Speaker:you see the different ways of engaging?
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:There's a balance, right?
Speaker:Because I do like the idea of having something of an element of surprise.
Speaker:Um, but at the same time, I like to design from a university.
Speaker:It's called universal design for learning, right?
Speaker:Making sure that you design an event or an experience of with all learners.
Speaker:So for example, there are some activities where you'll, you might have to move.
Speaker:So I ensure that I include.
Speaker:In the pre Mel, there's going to be activity where there might be movement.
Speaker:And actually now there's folks who are in the office, so you can't be running
Speaker:around in the office versus at home.
Speaker:You might feel more liberty to, to run around.
Speaker:Um, and so, yeah, so when it comes to accessibility needs, that's
Speaker:something that I keep in mind.
Speaker:Um, and then just letting me know, like there are some creative exercises, and
Speaker:to lean into the discomfort, right?
Speaker:To lean into the discomfort.
Speaker:And so when I do start off my presentation or, uh, recess, I,
Speaker:I start off with the research.
Speaker:I work in academia.
Speaker:So what is the research behind play?
Speaker:Uh, and yes, to lean into the discomfort.
Speaker:Like you might feel awkward, it might feel weird.
Speaker:Uh, you have a choice, you don't have to do everything, and then what I've
Speaker:noticed is that yes, there are the same people that show up, but then there
Speaker:are folks that tell their buddies, Hey, I did this event, you know, Yeah.
Speaker:So it's been cool to, to, to see that.
Speaker:Um, I love that point around acknowledging that it might feel uncomfortable.
Speaker:It might not, you might not enjoy it elements of this.
Speaker:Cause we don't enjoy everything we ever try and that's fine.
Speaker:And it's yeah.
Speaker:I think being kind of heads up that some bits you're going to like some bits you're
Speaker:not, and if you feel uncomfortable or silly or like, you're not sure what you're
Speaker:doing, you are not doing anything wrong.
Speaker:And it doesn't mean this isn't for you.
Speaker:It doesn't mean any of that.
Speaker:You can lean into that and see it out.
Speaker:So I love that acknowledgement.
Speaker:Fantastic.
Speaker:Now you're currently writing a book on black women and the power of play.
Speaker:And you've said to me, before that it's an active resistance against
Speaker:cultural stereotypes that you've experienced as a black woman.
Speaker:Now I feel like even an entire episode, you wouldn't get to do that
Speaker:topic justice, but I would love to hear you speak more about this and
Speaker:understand how does our own sense of culture impact, how we approach play.
Speaker:Oh, yes.
Speaker:Oh, I can talk about this all day.
Speaker:Um, so our sense of culture and identity impacts how we
Speaker:approach and conceptualize play.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:In my thirties as a black woman, I have been doing a lot of
Speaker:unlearning and learning and, um, and healing, as I mentioned earlier.
Speaker:So many black women.
Speaker:Um, and so I re I, I mentioned, I run a, uh, personal development program
Speaker:for black women in the city, and they say the same thing that there's
Speaker:this pressure to act, or to fit into this strong black woman stereotype.
Speaker:Projecting as strong self sacrificing and free of emotion.
Speaker:And this is something that we've seen our mothers, our aunties,
Speaker:our grandmothers, um, portray.
Speaker:And so what does that mean?
Speaker:You know, a strong black woman can, can take on anything, could probably do it.
Speaker:Well.
Speaker:They're resilient.
Speaker:They're taking.
Speaker:Care of stuff at work outside of work, uh, and so what happens is this
Speaker:burnout, burnout, this is what happens.
Speaker:Um, having an intense drive to succeed and feeling an obligation to help others
Speaker:and not asking for help, those can be very harmful for our health and, um, yeah, I
Speaker:can go on about a lot of research on that.
Speaker:And so knowing this, we have to mitigate these risks.
Speaker:And what I like to say, you need to plan your joy.
Speaker:The way that you plan, you know, your work stuff, family stuff,
Speaker:you need to plan your joy.
Speaker:And so for black women, creativity's a, is a form of rest.
Speaker:It's actually an act of resistance in 2022, it takes courage to say yes to
Speaker:rest and play, um, in a culture where exhaustion is seen as a status symbol.
Speaker:How you doing?
Speaker:Oh, I'm busy.
Speaker:I'm busy, right?
Speaker:Like, okay.
Speaker:If that person's belief, they must be really.
Speaker:And to me, exhaustion is, is an injury, right?
Speaker:Exhaustion can like stunts one's imagination.
Speaker:So most black women and men growing up, they would hear this a lot.
Speaker:You got to work twice as hard, to get as half as far.
Speaker:And we have been conditioned.
Speaker:To attach our identity to work in production while navigating, you know,
Speaker:microaggressions and racism, et cetera.
Speaker:And then the other thing is we've also been conditioned
Speaker:that we need to earn our rest.
Speaker:You need to earn your leisure or I'll rest when I die.
Speaker:And that's that shouldn't be the.
Speaker:For anybody actually.
Speaker:Um, so that's why I, say plays a really powerful act of resistance
Speaker:against the cultural stereotype, because joy should be non-negotiable.
Speaker:Everyone deserves joy.
Speaker:This idea of connecting with your inner child is also an interesting thing.
Speaker:Um, the New York Times had a great piece a few years ago on, uh, The
Speaker:adult vacation of young black children.
Speaker:And the piece does a really great job of explaining how for a lot of
Speaker:black children, childhood, um, is taken away, whether it's by media.
Speaker:School systems, uh, law enforcement.
Speaker:And so when those kids become adults, it's interesting to see
Speaker:where one needs to be healed.
Speaker:And I'm actually going through this process as well through, through therapy.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, and I think that's the beauty of re-introducing play to folks that
Speaker:may not have played as much, um, when they were, when they were younger.
Speaker:And so that's why I feel like it's so, so important for, for folks to play.
Speaker:And interestingly enough, I don't like to go.
Speaker:Uh, lack mindset because I, I, do find that like I'm coming from a
Speaker:Jamaican background and our culture is very playful music, arts color.
Speaker:Like it's something that is innate in us.
Speaker:um, and then when I watched tick talks and I see people on there, I'm
Speaker:like, man, this is, this is why it's so addicting because it's, it's cool
Speaker:to see people create and be playful.
Speaker:Um, so it's just tapping back into something that we naturally have and
Speaker:that perhaps something happened in our life that we're like, oh, okay.
Speaker:A little pause, but it's okay to, to come back to it.
Speaker:You said the kind of healing power of play and it being a
Speaker:tool and a method of healing.
Speaker:If you're comfortable talking about it, I'd love to hear more just
Speaker:about how you find it healing and what, what brought that up for you?
Speaker:I've realized that in life I've been, I've always been like an outcome driven person.
Speaker:I think a lot of folks are right?
Speaker:Go to university.
Speaker:Get a job with a pension
Speaker:Objective markers of success.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:It's like all these metrics.
Speaker:And what happens is you don't get to enjoy the journey.
Speaker:So what play has done for me is it allows me to enjoy the journey with no outcomes.
Speaker:And that's very hard for.
Speaker:that's exactly what, how, where I struggle with it too.
Speaker:Like I, I rationally and emotionally.
Speaker:Buy into and believe about the magic of play and exploring new, new
Speaker:experiences, trying things that you suck at, as you say, trusting the process.
Speaker:And I, I get that.
Speaker:And some days I'm really kind of good at doing that.
Speaker:And other days I really struggle.
Speaker:I really, I feel a lot of guilt, you know, around why am I doing this when
Speaker:I've got all this work to be getting on with these people need me and yeah.
Speaker:And I'm not good at that.
Speaker:And it's the amount of unlearning to use the word used earlieris, is real.
Speaker:it is, it is so real.
Speaker:It is so real.
Speaker:And it's probably another episode, like at what point in life do
Speaker:we stop experimenting, right?
Speaker:Like when we're kids, it's like, yeah, let's, let's do this, let's do that.
Speaker:And then we go into school and then there's like standardized
Speaker:testings and all of that.
Speaker:And outcome-based, but it is healing because there's a lot
Speaker:of reflection points for me.
Speaker:Um, one that, you know, when I was younger, I used to do like weird things.
Speaker:I used to talk to trees.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:you should talk to trees.
Speaker:And I always thought that was really weird.
Speaker:And over the pandemic, doing a lot of like force walks and I'm like, oh, this
Speaker:is why this is, this is soothing for me.
Speaker:This is healing for me.
Speaker:This is not weird.
Speaker:Like, this is just, you know, what my soul needs.
Speaker:And I've, I've always had this when I was a kid.
Speaker:No one else was doing.
Speaker:Well I don't know.
Speaker:Maybe there's a listener out there who used to talk to trees, but that
Speaker:was just the way that I like to play.
Speaker:Some people had imaginary friends.
Speaker:I had trees.
Speaker:And can kind of continuing on from this.
Speaker:Um, but back to the book, do you have a title yet or is that sort
Speaker:of work in progress when I'm
Speaker:It's still a work in progress, but, um, the word playbook is there.
Speaker:Okay, Awesome.
Speaker:And what would you love?
Speaker:To make happen with that book.
Speaker:Like who do you want it to find its way to?
Speaker:Well, what do you want it to do?
Speaker:Or what's your, are you kind of putting it out there and it's going to take it
Speaker:some beautiful journey in the university.
Speaker:Like I want it to do this.
Speaker:Like, how do you feel about
Speaker:I love this question, because that was the first question I asked myself.
Speaker:Because when it?
Speaker:comes to books, right?
Speaker:Like you people write books, obviously for folks to read it for some people
Speaker:it's like, oh, I want to be a bestseller.
Speaker:I'm writing this book for my mom, right?
Speaker:And I mean, obviously I would love for other people to read it, But I, I, I would
Speaker:love for her to digest this material the way that she would like to digest it.
Speaker:But I've, I've seen so much, you know, what I was talking about earlier about
Speaker:like the strong black woman, um, but also she gave me so much as well.
Speaker:So it is it's for my mom.
Speaker:It's for my mom.
Speaker:And for, for, for women.
Speaker:Trying to climb up that ladder, whatever that ladder is.
Speaker:Um, and just reminding themselves like, hey, you deserve ease.
Speaker:You deserve joy.
Speaker:You don't need to earn it.
Speaker:That's your birthright.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:What's your mother's name?
Speaker:Sharon.
Speaker:Oh, Sharon.
Speaker:Lucky you it's a beautiful gift coming your way.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:So how do you see the role and importance of embedding imagination
Speaker:and play to disrupt the status quo?
Speaker:How we're doing things now we've touched on it so far, but tell
Speaker:us more about that and the power it has to disrupt the status.
Speaker:it allows us to take a pause and rethink systems.
Speaker:As I mentioned earlier, I think we're focused so much on the
Speaker:outcomes, which is important.
Speaker:You know, it's, it's really important.
Speaker:And sometimes there's time constraints.
Speaker:But imagination in play allows us to encourage wild ideas, defer judgment,
Speaker:asking how might we questions?
Speaker:And I think the status quo.
Speaker:Is founded on predictability because as humans, we love that most humans, right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Play provides an opportunity for us to try something new and see where it goes.
Speaker:And that's why it's different because the status quo is like,
Speaker:we've done this, it's worked.
Speaker:Maybe it hasn't worked.
Speaker:We don't have the time.
Speaker:We don't have the budget.
Speaker:Uh, but play and imagination, uh, provide some doors to possibilities.
Speaker:Yeah, the predictability point is so true.
Speaker:I think the illusion of control, I think that we like to have that we think we can
Speaker:control things and we can predict things.
Speaker:And I think this is sometimes where.
Speaker:Fear around player that has comfort around play, especially when you start
Speaker:thinking about bringing it into the workplace, which is, you know, a great
Speaker:price, but also quite a big hurdle to get over sometimes thinking about how
Speaker:can we integrate play in our work.
Speaker:It's often this idea of, well, what happens if we play more?
Speaker:Does anyone know, could even control that?
Speaker:And no, we can't.
Speaker:And I think there's something that is quite deeply uncomfortable about that,
Speaker:that if we were to play more, what might happen and, and, and who controls that.
Speaker:So I think that's often where the fear stems.
Speaker:And what do you think the conditions for play are.
Speaker:So what needs to be in place for play to happen, especially in,
Speaker:again, the kind of group context or professional group context, where you
Speaker:are thinking, okay, you know, I'm, I'm, at work or I'm around colleagues.
Speaker:I am thinking about how I'm coming across.
Speaker:I don't feel completely free to use it.
Speaker:What, whatever the about play being synonymous with freedom for you.
Speaker:So what do you think needs to be in place in these, in these contexts
Speaker:for play to happen and flourish?
Speaker:So as a learning experience designer, I think this is an important question
Speaker:because when you're designing experiences and you can quantify
Speaker:experiences in whatever could be a meeting, it could be a retreat, it
Speaker:could be a discussion, but you need to been intentional with the conditions.
Speaker:How should you design experiences where people feel safe is one point, point.
Speaker:And then more importantly for me, I want to feel like an appetizer where
Speaker:people will want to do it again.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So the first thing I think the first condition is, is his mindset.
Speaker:I have learned for adults and it's quite strange, but it's, it's, it's true from
Speaker:my experience that you need to grant permission to be playful in different
Speaker:spheres, you can be playful at work.
Speaker:Um, so in my sessions, I've used affirmations, because I think
Speaker:there's power, you know, in words.
Speaker:So, you know, plays a gift to share with others.
Speaker:My creativity helps me connect to the world.
Speaker:I like to start off, um, with them and tell people if they, if they,
Speaker:they feel comfortable just to say it to themselves, because that's kind of
Speaker:healing that, that inner inner child.
Speaker:And then reminding adults, um, that the impulse to play is innate.
Speaker:It is in us, and it can be developed.
Speaker:And the last thing with mindset is that you are probably
Speaker:doing playful things already.
Speaker:the way you cook the way you commute to work the way you dress.
Speaker:You are probably doing playful things.
Speaker:So how can.
Speaker:No, do it more in work.
Speaker:So that's the first, the mindset.
Speaker:Number two, uh, environment.
Speaker:There needs to be an environment where people can feel safe to
Speaker:experiment in the workplace.
Speaker:And when I think of play or creativity, there has to be like a judgment free zone.
Speaker:And we typically hear companies say, They want innovative ideas or
Speaker:they value creativity, their values or mission statement, whatever.
Speaker:But are they designing spaces for folks to innovate, to experiment and to play?
Speaker:And more importantly, are you acknowledging and rewarding
Speaker:folks for this process?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Rather than just the output of great ideas that are relevant and game changing,
Speaker:you know, because that's not going to be every idea or even many of the ideas,
Speaker:the process of getting stuff that's coming out with stupid ideas that aren't
Speaker:relevant and falling flat on your face.
Speaker:Trying stuff, presenting, iterating, evaluating.
Speaker:Yes, the process, not the outcome.
Speaker:Are you rewarding for that?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Uh, and then the last point, so I talked about mindset, number one, uh,
Speaker:two environment, and then three choice.
Speaker:I think I talked about this earlier.
Speaker:So I think plays a spectrum.
Speaker:I, and that's what I love about is like the way that I play, the way that
Speaker:I love to play may be different from the way that you would like to play.
Speaker:Play can be loud.
Speaker:Play can be quiet, can be individual.
Speaker:It can be the group.
Speaker:It can be indoors.
Speaker:It'd be outdoors, can be talking to a tree or playing with Lego bricks.
Speaker:It could be different for everyone, and that is the beautiful thing.
Speaker:So you want to create conditions where people have choice.
Speaker:This provides like a universal design approach to it.
Speaker:Especially for those who haven't played in a war.
Speaker:And like, I was going back to that appetizer feeling of, okay,
Speaker:this feels yucky, but I'll, I know I do like sketching, or I
Speaker:like playing with post-it notes.
Speaker:There needs to be a fine balance though, because I think sometimes
Speaker:it's nice to get people out of their comfort zone, but providing
Speaker:choices, also a great opportunity to, to design conditions for that.
Speaker:And you mentioned the second factor around environment and the question
Speaker:of whether organizations are creating spaces to innovate in play and engaging
Speaker:creative ideas and just try things.
Speaker:Do you think.
Speaker:With your learning experience, design expertise.
Speaker:Does that need to be carved out as either a physical space you can
Speaker:go to, or probably increasingly in this world, a virtual space, but
Speaker:carving out intention any other time?
Speaker:Or, or, or a space in some way for this to happen rather than hoping it just
Speaker:as interwoven in your every day, every meeting, how you're showing up, do
Speaker:you think it can be done in that kind of, oh, at any point we can innovate
Speaker:and be creative or do you think it does need these parameters and these
Speaker:boundaries where it's like, no, in this space and in this time we do this,
Speaker:I think there's there's room for both there's room for both.
Speaker:From a universal design approach you want to design for all learners.
Speaker:There are folks who, if they walk into a room and they have not, they have no
Speaker:idea what's going on, they may run out.
Speaker:At the same time.
Speaker:You need to have a facilitator that?
Speaker:could, you know, you're not going to put just, I mean, it'd
Speaker:be an interesting experiment.
Speaker:I feel like it'd be like a.
Speaker:Um, a great experience with that, just to have folks in a room without no, um,
Speaker:outcomes, but from my experience, you know, when you're designing, you know,
Speaker:a gathering or meeting, it's nice to have some outcomes, like, you know, by
Speaker:the end of this session, people should either feel or be able to do something.
Speaker:And so you're going to create activities that really support those
Speaker:outcomes, but also have space for magic, have room for magic, just in
Speaker:case things go, you know, sideways.
Speaker:That's fun.
Speaker:That's okay.
Speaker:As a facilitator, you should be comfortable with that as well.
Speaker:Again, the kind of unknown and unpredictability that always the edge and
Speaker:you can't control, what's going to happen.
Speaker:So you've already mentioned a few lovely kind of practices that you use.
Speaker:Um, but I'd love to hear if you could share either an imagination
Speaker:or a playful practice that you have used in your work with these various
Speaker:different communities that, um, our listener could try themselves.
Speaker:So I'm a big fan and you probably know this one, the yes and.
Speaker:It comes from improv, right?
Speaker:The yes.
Speaker:And philosophy.
Speaker:So you can use this in a meeting, or you can use this as just, you
Speaker:know, an icebreaker, but it's kinda nice to use it in a meeting.
Speaker:So typically what happens in meetings is the introverts don't pipe up because
Speaker:they're afraid that folks will dismiss their ideas or there's that one.
Speaker:person that keeps on talking.
Speaker:They're afraid of, you know, hearing any of these statements.
Speaker:Great idea, but this is not going to work great idea, but we have no budget for
Speaker:this great idea, but it won't be approved.
Speaker:So having a yes and, in I called it a mini meeting, you could do it like
Speaker:for 15 minutes within a meeting.
Speaker:Come with a challenge and ask people to build upon each other's ideas
Speaker:always say yes and build, build.
Speaker:Build, build, build.
Speaker:Rather than pointing out the possible risks or failures.
Speaker:I love this because there's no constraints.
Speaker:And it's also nice because it includes humor.
Speaker:Humor is a big piece of, of, of play and there might be aha moments, right.
Speaker:There might be a hot moments.
Speaker:If you don't want to do it, work-related you could just start a story this weekend.
Speaker:I did this and then just build, build upon it.
Speaker:So that's a really good one.
Speaker:Uh, I know you only asked for one.
Speaker:There's
Speaker:Always say for more always say for more,
Speaker:Um, I think a simple exercise, especially for those who are back in
Speaker:the office is like moving things around.
Speaker:Like movement, like moving chairs around.
Speaker:It's funny how, when you're not sitting in your usual spot with different
Speaker:perspectives, you will gain, um, so that's a very simple, you know, simple exercise.
Speaker:And then finally, I'm a big fan of making your learning visible.
Speaker:Like whatever's in your head, whatever's in your head, visible to others.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:Providing items.
Speaker:You can have a meeting where you have, like, I love aluminum aluminum foil,
Speaker:because you just do so much with it.
Speaker:Uh, Lego bricks.
Speaker:Play-Doh Um, I think sometimes we think that the brain does all the work, which
Speaker:is, you know, does a lot of the work, but it's funny how, when you start
Speaker:building things, your hands and your brain will connect your start building,
Speaker:like with Play-Doh like, I have no idea what this is, but then, oh, this, this
Speaker:is looking like a dog with three legs.
Speaker:Okay, cool.
Speaker:Let's go with this, right?
Speaker:Um, so providing items.
Speaker:Where you might ask for it like me, you might have a challenge and ask
Speaker:folks to build something, a solution using the items in front of you.
Speaker:So making your learning visible, uh, as a really great idea as well.
Speaker:I love those three fantastic tips and kind of what I love
Speaker:about these is that they are.
Speaker:Anyone can try them.
Speaker:That's what we're trying to do is kind of, you don't need
Speaker:to be an expert facilitator.
Speaker:You don't need to be in a playful environment already.
Speaker:You can take these, just, I love that the, the, the, uh,
Speaker:the foil cause you're so right.
Speaker:You can make any kinds of shapes, a little 3d structures
Speaker:and the connection between yeah.
Speaker:Your hands and your mind and how they can speak to each other.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:So thank you.
Speaker:We're at the end of our lovely conversation, is there anything.
Speaker:I haven't asked you or invited out from you in our chat today
Speaker:that you'd like to share.
Speaker:I've been thinking about the word play a lot.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:it's, it's my word of a year and I'm writing a book and sometimes
Speaker:I wonder like our folks, when they hear the word play, many folks
Speaker:think of child like child player.
Speaker:But I'm like, I wonder if we swap the word, play with engagement.
Speaker:Like in the workplace, like what would like, would that be different?
Speaker:Would that be different?
Speaker:I'd be personally, I love the word play.
Speaker:I don't think we should swap it, but when I think about employee
Speaker:engagement, that's I think of play.
Speaker:I completely agree.
Speaker:The amount of conversations I've had in the context of Playfilled myself
Speaker:and Pauline, we'll, we'll talk about play and the person will say, oh,
Speaker:I love what you're talking about.
Speaker:Just, just quit something different.
Speaker:Just call it something that, we already are talking about, and we're already
Speaker:comfortable with, and you know, it's already in our discourse about work.
Speaker:Just because it look different.
Speaker:And you know, of course it's tempting sometimes, but I'm kind of quite
Speaker:obstinate about it because I love the word play like you said, I'm like, no,
Speaker:no, we, we, we need to bring this, this word back into our lives and we need
Speaker:to confront all the discomfort that's around it and try and dismantle that.
Speaker:But.
Speaker:A bit loud and proud about it, I guess.
Speaker:So, but it's interesting that I've had similar thoughts of so many things we
Speaker:already do and talk about and feel is important, you could say that's played,
Speaker:but we just have the word itself it has some way to go to being embraced, I think.
Speaker:But, um, I'm up for the challenge.
Speaker:We need more, more view because it's, it's so important.
Speaker:It's so important to, want to say fight that battle, but it's important
Speaker:to have play, um, you know, in the workplace, outside the workplace.
Speaker:And I think creating a space or a time at work, whether it's 10 minutes, 30 minutes
Speaker:a day, to get folks out of their routines.
Speaker:Is magical.
Speaker:It's it's great.
Speaker:You should.
Speaker:Um, and so play allows you to do that, right?
Speaker:How can I have 30 minutes, 15 minutes of an element of surprise at work, right?
Speaker:Like I was saying earlier, maybe change the space, move the
Speaker:chairs, maybe add items, right?
Speaker:Maybe start a meeting, asking folks to, you know, do show and tell.
Speaker:I love when I was younger.
Speaker:I love show and tell maybe, Yeah.
Speaker:that's an assignment.
Speaker:Asked folks to bring an item from their home.
Speaker:That means a lot to them or a hobby that they're, they're doing a lot
Speaker:of folks have developed hobbies over the past couple of years.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So just those little things doesn't have to be too, too, too big, too big.
Speaker:Brilliant.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:So Lucy, what came up for you and you listened to my lovely
Speaker:conversation with Stacey-Ann?
Speaker:Oh, it was such a lovely conversation.
Speaker:That was like the main thing I was like, oh, I just couldn't tear myself away.
Speaker:Um, I think.
Speaker:I really like the idea of players freedom and as a way of reconnecting
Speaker:and integrating our inner child.
Speaker:and that idea that as play, when we play as adults, you know, there will
Speaker:be a thread that leads us back to our players' children And how, how
Speaker:interesting it is to like try something from your childhood in your adult body.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:I love the sense of intention she brought to this idea of play.
Speaker:Whether it was, you know, play, being her word of the year, or then choosing
Speaker:a form of play for the month where she was like, I'm just gonna explore this
Speaker:form of play and talking about how terrible she was at her chosen form of
Speaker:play in the who heaping as an example.
Speaker:But I just loved seeing that beginner's mindset.
Speaker:Really at the four with her.
Speaker:And she was just so intentional about bringing it into her life.
Speaker:I also, you know, this idea of play and rest as resistance and a
Speaker:birthright, particularly for black people and black women were strength.
Speaker:Is what is expected and exhaustion is a status symbol.
Speaker:And you know how she talked about the power of play as a healing tool and
Speaker:the kind of courage that is required to do that and to go against the grain.
Speaker:And it made me think like, you know, as facilitators, we have such a
Speaker:responsibility to be aware of these things and aware of, you know, people's
Speaker:history with play and mindful of that when we are creating and holding spaces.
Speaker:Couldn't agree more.
Speaker:I love how she evolved the conversation.
Speaker:It felt beyond its sort of surface level benefits, which
Speaker:are plentiful and brilliant, but into its deeper ability to heal.
Speaker:And she was talking about, you know, plaing a form of rest to use your word.
Speaker:That's, that's our birthright.
Speaker:We don't need to earn it.
Speaker:And this idea of players, a form of resistance, I think that.
Speaker:She was tapping into this kind of huge power of play that sits
Speaker:beneath the surface level view.
Speaker:When we think about play being, you know, it's a form of banter, it's a form of
Speaker:just seeing people, you know, visually laughing and joking and using humor like
Speaker:that is a kind of play, but there's this.
Speaker:Amazing invisible powerless.
Speaker:It's beneath it, which we miss out.
Speaker:Or when we have a bit of a one dimensional view of what playfulness must look
Speaker:like, um, this, this idea of a kind of, it's a form of resistance under, under
Speaker:that surface level under the water.
Speaker:Um, I felt like, yeah, we needed more than more than the time we had to unpack.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And you know, and when thinking about creating safe spaces, I thought what
Speaker:she was saying about the importance of signaling was so important, you know,
Speaker:like letting people know what to expect.
Speaker:If people, you know, have been adultified as children, um, signaling to people,
Speaker:what it will mean, like acknowledging that it might be uncomfortable and,
Speaker:and holding that and being with that, and also drawing on research.
Speaker:So, you know, that people can feel cognitively comfortable.
Speaker:What are the benefits of this?
Speaker:What's it gonna help us do?
Speaker:Um, and being really intentional to use your word, um, with the conditions
Speaker:for how you create spaces for play.
Speaker:I was listening back on our conversation, I had this feeling that
Speaker:she, her two feet were in two worlds.
Speaker:It was like one foot was really grounded in today.
Speaker:And so much of her work was kind of relevant in the here and the now in
Speaker:the present, whether it's, you know, designing those recess spaces for
Speaker:her colleagues, helping her students explore kind of big decisions.
Speaker:So very relevant and grounded in today, but it felt like the other
Speaker:foot was planted in a different world that was made up of this kind of
Speaker:imagination that she talked about.
Speaker:And this world of.
Speaker:Has no hope and optimism and just imagining beyond our today.
Speaker:And I just felt, I dunno, that kind of, it felt so expansive that she wasn't just
Speaker:living in this kind of conceptual land.
Speaker:She was living very much in today and using play today.
Speaker:But with this kind of expansive, imaginative other land that she was
Speaker:kind of building in her in her mind.
Speaker:And I love that that straddling of both bid spaces.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And she said at one point leave space for magic.
Speaker:And I was like, yeah, that's so exciting.
Speaker:I also loved her invitation to like plan your joy.
Speaker:You know, like actually take space for it and plan what you're gonna
Speaker:do and when you're gonna do it, and consciously carve out time for that.
Speaker:I think that's really important in a world where, you know, we're all
Speaker:running so fast and working hard to make conscious space for it.
Speaker:And that, that theme and that thread of being very conscious and very
Speaker:clear about things I found kept coming up in her, in her reflections.
Speaker:And the fact that she, when I said, you know, tell me about the book
Speaker:and, and, and who were writing it for and the impact you wanted to have.
Speaker:And she just said, I'm writing it for my mom.
Speaker:I rang it for Sharon and there's something about the specificity and
Speaker:the clarity she had of who she was trying to communicate with and what
Speaker:she was trying to say with that work.
Speaker:That really touched me, and I found that really inspiring just to think yeah.
Speaker:That, that specificity of who she's talking to and what
Speaker:she's trying to do, I love that
Speaker:Yeah, that was amazing.
Speaker:I've got goosebumps.
Speaker:Anything else that came up for you?
Speaker:Talking to trees?
Speaker:She's like,
Speaker:I'm all about talking to trees.
Speaker:Let's talk to more trees.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening today.
Speaker:If you enjoyed this episode, please do rate and review as it really
Speaker:helps us to reach other listeners.
Speaker:We're releasing episodes every two weeks, so do you hit Subscribe
Speaker:to ensure you don't miss out on more playful inspiration.
Speaker:Don't forget, you can find us at www.whyplayworks.com or
Speaker:wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker:And if you'd like to join our growing community of people United by the idea
Speaker:of at work, you can sign up to the Playworks Collective on the home page.
Speaker:If you have any ideas for future episodes topics you'd like to hear
Speaker:about guest suggestions or questions about the work we do with organizations,
Speaker:we would love to hear from you.
Speaker:Your feedback really matters to us.
Speaker:So please drop us a line at hello@whyplayworks.com.
Speaker:We'll be back in a fortnight with a brand new guest, and
