The value of play can’t be measured in numbers alone, with Dr Heidi Edmundson
Many people feel they work better under pressure, but if you need to think creatively, a relaxed environment will work far better. That’s how Dr Heidi Edmundson approaches play, and importantly makes the distinction that although play can be childlike, it’s not childish.
Things to consider
- We need connection as human beings, and it can sometimes be achieved by something as simple as briefly removing a mask.
- By following a step-by-step process of curiosity, Heidi became more able to trust herself.
- Trust can help overcome skepticism.
- The outcomes of play are not always directly quantifiable, but no less valuable.
Links
- As we recover from the pandemic let’s not forget to encourage staff to take a break – a BMJ opinion piece by Heidi
- Playfilled
- Make Work Play
Transcript
Hello, welcome to the show.
Speaker:My name's Tzuki Stewart from Playfilled
Speaker:And I'm Lucy Taylor from Make Work Play.
Speaker:Together, we are Why Play Works.
Speaker:The podcast that speaks to people, radically reshaping
Speaker:the idea of work as play.
Speaker:Today, I'm with Dr.
Speaker:Heidi Edmondson, who has worked in the NHS for over 20 years, the last 10
Speaker:of which as a consultant in emergency medicine at Wittington Health.
Speaker:She's a passionate advocate for NHS staff wellness and its importance
Speaker:with regards to the individual, the workforce and the patients they care for.
Speaker:Now you might be forgiven for thinking that the emergency department of a
Speaker:hospital doesn't exactly lend itself to creating a playful environment.
Speaker:But Heidi is a real trailblazer in using play and creativity as a means
Speaker:to facilitate wellness, build teams and help people find their voice.
Speaker:For the past six years, she's run dedicated playful sessions in her hospital
Speaker:in which staff are encouraged to play games or take part in short creative tasks
Speaker:In this conversation, we hear how by engaging in these playful
Speaker:activities together, Heidi has seen her colleagues able to express their
Speaker:whole selves and connect to the humanity in themselves and others.
Speaker:So let's kick off.
Speaker:What does the word play mean to you?
Speaker:I think that is quite an interesting question.
Speaker:Um, and I have sort of, I think about this regularly and I think I'm just staged now.
Speaker:I suppose I associate play by much with the concept of creativity and
Speaker:creativity is very important to me.
Speaker:So I think play is almost the practical application of creativity or a
Speaker:practical way to access creativity.
Speaker:Maybe there's a better way to say it.
Speaker:Um, so I think, you know, this idea, you know, people who don't think
Speaker:about creativity or a lot of people, I think that you just create creative to
Speaker:people just to make up and our creator for me, just to wake up and they're
Speaker:being creative, going about their lives, you know, coming up with ideas.
Speaker:And actually, I think a lot of creative people would tell you that in order
Speaker:to sort of access that creativity, you need to go through a process and
Speaker:play with the way to access that.
Speaker:I suppose another way is it's a kind of safe way to access or
Speaker:to explore concepts and ideas.
Speaker:So it's sort of like a, it's a safe way of doing that.
Speaker:There's something about it being relaxed.
Speaker:So I think if you're putting under pressure to do anything, a lot of,
Speaker:lots of people think they work well under pressure, but actually if you're
Speaker:really trying to access something new or different, I think you work better
Speaker:under kind of relaxed atmosphere.
Speaker:The other thing I would probably say is more particularly foot plate isn't
Speaker:and I think this is quite important as it's not childish because I think it
Speaker:might be child something like children, or it might be something childlike,
Speaker:but I think it's not a childish thing.
Speaker:And I think this is moving by.
Speaker:People get anxious about the word play because they associate it with being
Speaker:childish and actually maybe childlike in a positive way, but it it shouldn't have
Speaker:those negative connotations with people sort of say, stop being so childish.
Speaker:And what about you?
Speaker:You've said that creativity is very important to you personally.
Speaker:so if play is the way you access that, when did you last bill playful?
Speaker:I could almost ask these questions to the, to the time was quite interesting.
Speaker:So I probably in my, my private life, I sort of, one of the ways I access this
Speaker:was, belong to two kinds of creative writing forums, uh, run by two very
Speaker:inspirational women called Diane Samuels and Claire Steele, and they have both,
Speaker:they both use a similar techniques, um, which is very much this idea of
Speaker:encouraging creative writing food, playing with words, word games, you know, they
Speaker:facilitate group sessions for your given, you know, you eat stone, offer the word
Speaker:to play with, and then you swap phrases.
Speaker:And they very much encouraged his kind of playful approach to words,
Speaker:in in order to access creative, your creativity and writing.
Speaker:So that that's sort of one aspect, I suppose.
Speaker:Um, other ways I do it, um, I did run a workshop at work last week or two weeks
Speaker:ago, um, which was again using this kind of playful techniques, playing games.
Speaker:So I suppose that, that, that was, you know, I suppose specifically like that.
Speaker:I think it's what you do, you just feel and you're your own, you know,
Speaker:if you get together, you know, I've sort of said at the beginning, or
Speaker:when we were talking earlier, you guys just went home for a week.
Speaker:So I caught up with two older, two, most of my school friends.
Speaker:I think the kinds of conversations you have are playful.
Speaker:You, you joke, you you make good with this.
Speaker:I kind of really lovely, lively Playfilled conversations you can have
Speaker:with good friends that are important.
Speaker:And I completely agree, and I think what's lovely as well as thinking about how you
Speaker:can be doing something playfully that doesn't need to be a Playfilled activity.
Speaker:You can be cuing to the post office, but there's a kind of mindset or
Speaker:a way of moving through the world.
Speaker:Isn't it?
Speaker:You can be playful or not playful and dial it up and down depending on how you feel,
Speaker:but you don't have to be doing a playful activity to be playful and in your spirit.
Speaker:So we often think about play and work.
Speaker:I think we've been conditioned to believe that they are opposites.
Speaker:You know, you work hard, you play hard.
Speaker:They that they're not meant to meet.
Speaker:How do you think play and work relate to each other?
Speaker:Well, I think they are important because I think probably the misconceptions
Speaker:are that somehow or other, this idea, if you're at work, you have to be
Speaker:serious, you work as a serious thing and to play is not a serious thing.
Speaker:So and, and I think one of the, when I first started trying to introduce this
Speaker:concept of playfulness, you like one of the ways that you don't one of the first
Speaker:talks I did, I called it the serious business of fun, because I actually
Speaker:think there's an element that that fun and, and playfulness are very important
Speaker:and they're very important to access a lot of qualities that I think are
Speaker:very important for whatever job you do.
Speaker:Um, so in my context of I'm a doctor over at an emergency department.
Speaker:I think the, you know, if you, if you do access that playful side
Speaker:of yourself, it does put you in touch with your own humanity.
Speaker:It puts you in this empathetic side, it puts you in touch with the bit
Speaker:of you that you need to connect to.
Speaker:And sometimes you you're on sometimes even people like you to, to, you
Speaker:know, people want connection.
Speaker:That that is what people want.
Speaker:Everybody wants connection.
Speaker:So patients want connections when you're working with people,
Speaker:they w they want to connect.
Speaker:Um, and I sort of think, within work, I think it's
Speaker:something about these questions.
Speaker:I sort of asked myself a lot now and I bring up in conversations.
Speaker:What is the culture of a workplace?
Speaker:What sort of culture do you want?
Speaker:And I think something that keeps on coming up more and more is this
Speaker:idea, you want a culture that is relational, not transactional.
Speaker:And I think that is important in a lot of work places.
Speaker:And I think it's also important in the NHS.
Speaker:So I think this kind of playful and connection that the old Lincoln to
Speaker:be able to connect them with other people and to forge relationships.
Speaker:So I think that that, that is why it is important, and it's important in my
Speaker:workplace, which those relationships are important, both with your
Speaker:colleagues, but also with the kind of therapeutic relationship with patients.
Speaker:Um, and I imagine that it's important to know all other
Speaker:relationships or all other workplaces.
Speaker:It's this idea of building relationships.
Speaker:I think also the relationship with with play and work.
Speaker:It's also, as I said before, creativity is, is associated and connected with this.
Speaker:And it's actually, creativity is very important.
Speaker:I would say problem solving.
Speaker:And I think all workplaces we've gone through a lot to think in the last couple
Speaker:of years with the pandemic, we've really had to stand up and think oh my goodness.
Speaker:Our whole lives changed, our whole way we view things.
Speaker:So actually there is something important, even continuing to move on
Speaker:how we find new ways of doing things.
Speaker:And actually players also again, associated with creativity and that
Speaker:that is associated with problem solving.
Speaker:So I think that's, that's such a relevance to any, any workplace, really.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:There's something very, very human
Speaker:about play, or even very, maybe you'd say normalistic cause you see animals
Speaker:playing as well.
Speaker:I don't know, but there's something very, deeply human and how we do it.
Speaker:We we've, we've put it in this box as belonging to children and for
Speaker:childhood.
Speaker:And then, you know, that box would be put on the shelf, but actually
Speaker:if you can bring that box down and start to use it in work, it's
Speaker:it accesses something in enough.
Speaker:Th that doesn't get invited out.
Speaker:We'll meet when we keep it up on that shelf.
Speaker:I think maybe another way with worst case.
Speaker:It does a thing that I sometimes say as people who sort of took, begun to
Speaker:look at play, it's a bit like dessert.
Speaker:You're only allowed to get it, you know, you're only allowed when
Speaker:they're from the serious work of dinner has been taken care of.
Speaker:And then if you were a very good person and there's the you've been
Speaker:good and you've been well-behaved and there's a little bit of time left at
Speaker:the end, you're allowed a dessert.
Speaker:And I think, you know, sometimes say it's, it's more than that.
Speaker:It should be, you know, it should be there all the time.
Speaker:Oh, I love that.
Speaker:I can't promise.
Speaker:I'm not going to take that and run with it because we talk about how
Speaker:this idea that you have to earn it.
Speaker:You have to earn the right to be selfish and to be playful.
Speaker:And, and that's not the case.
Speaker:So we you've already mentioned some of this, but I'd love to hear
Speaker:a bit more about what, what do you think we really misunderstand
Speaker:about play in the context of work?
Speaker:So you mentioned that at the moment, we really do kind of dismiss it
Speaker:as being frivolous or childish.
Speaker:So what are we missing out on in your view when we do sort
Speaker:of diminish it in that way?
Speaker:So, I think play is an important aspect of problem solving, because
Speaker:it connects to creativity and that connects to this concept of
Speaker:finding a new solution to a problem.
Speaker:And I think sometimes people are scared to enter into any of this, this sort
Speaker:of playfulness to look for solutions.
Speaker:So, you end up having quite serious conversations, but all that really happens
Speaker:quite often is you, you recycle the same solution over and over and over again.
Speaker:So quite often, you're, you're not finding a new solution.
Speaker:And I think being playful does lead you to find a new solution.
Speaker:And there's something about if you think about when you were a child and
Speaker:you played, that there's an elementary, you, you go into a zone where you
Speaker:you're just, you're, you're making connections, you're linking things that
Speaker:you wouldn't automatically have linked before, you're finding ways of doing
Speaker:something, you know, you can give a group of children a set of boxes and you
Speaker:can leave them to it, and then you'll come back and they'll have created a
Speaker:whole different world with those boxes.
Speaker:And it's that ability to take something that you've got and
Speaker:re-see it in a different way, is something you do when you're playful.
Speaker:And it's also what you need to do if you need to think your
Speaker:way forward into a situation.
Speaker:I think this is a huge thing for, for everybody in the workforce at the moment.
Speaker:Cause we're all trying to come to terms with where we are in the
Speaker:world and how to move forward after everything we've been through.
Speaker:So I think that that's one way.
Speaker:I think in stressful work places, and again, the NHS is a stressful
Speaker:workplace, but then that many workplaces are stressful workplaces.
Speaker:Th th there's a lot of conversations around how you
Speaker:can get people to de-stress.
Speaker:And one of the ones that comes up a lot is is is meditation.
Speaker:And people will say, you know, go home and practice mindfulness.
Speaker:And mindfulness, you know, obviously works and it works for a lot of people,
Speaker:but, but it doesn't work for everybody.
Speaker:It's not completely easily accessible.
Speaker:But actually we know that if you engage in these kinds of just to put your
Speaker:mate call any kind of slightly playful activities, or creative activities,
Speaker:that they are the same as mindfulness.
Speaker:And we all know this and are, you know it's why lots of people find solace and
Speaker:baking or cooking because it's, you, you just are focused on the present.
Speaker:And it's an, it's a very easy and accessible way to focus in on the
Speaker:present that, that, that a lot of people will find easier to do than
Speaker:actually practice mindfulness.
Speaker:Um, and also because it's associated with other things.
Speaker:If you start to laugh, because quite often you're that playful mood, then you start
Speaker:laughing, in laughter is as they will have gantry you, one of the most healthy
Speaker:things that you can do for yourself.
Speaker:It is your heart, it is really, really a very healthy and it reduces cortisol,
Speaker:it increases, like serotonin, bonding hormones, creases your pain threshold.
Speaker:So it's a really healthy thing to do.
Speaker:So and it's a very cheap and easy and accessible way to
Speaker:get people to laugh and do it.
Speaker:I think also in the context of learning, if so in you're in any kind of sort of
Speaker:environment where you're trying to get people to learn or learn new things,
Speaker:they have shown that a few laugh or fun's involved, or you're sort of much
Speaker:more likely to change your behavior.
Speaker:So I think that's very, very important.
Speaker:And there was something fun theory, but she's, they tried to make things funds.
Speaker:They, they talk about the very good example of this is in Sweden and one
Speaker:of the underground stations, they wanted people to use the stairs, not
Speaker:the escalator and people obviously, you could put up as many notices
Speaker:as you wanted, people ignored them.
Speaker:Um, but then they turned the stairs into a big grand piano that played
Speaker:music as you walked up and done it, so it became a fun thing to do
Speaker:and stare usage increased by 66%.
Speaker:So if you are trying to do something to get people, to change their
Speaker:behavior, they are much more likely to do it if you make it a fun thing
Speaker:rather than a deadly serious thing.
Speaker:Um, and I think all of these are things that people will spend
Speaker:a lot of time thinking your workplace, how do I do these?
Speaker:But then again, you people sort of dismiss fun.
Speaker:Um, and again, another thing I was like to say, it's a victim of its
Speaker:own success because nobody takes it seriously, cause he just go,
Speaker:well, we're not going to use it.
Speaker:We can't make it fun.
Speaker:We have to take this as a serious thing.
Speaker:And, and actually they they just keep on discounting it.
Speaker:I've heard you say that as a, as a doctor.
Speaker:You couldn't initially, you couldn't see where creativity had a place in
Speaker:your working life, and you've mentioned your own creative writing pursuits.
Speaker:So for you personally, it's always been very important, but before you
Speaker:didn't see how it fitted into your work life and could inform your working
Speaker:practice, can you tell me about what happened to change your mind on that?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I suppose that, that they sort of, the first thing that happened was,
Speaker:that the first way it sort of accessed, it was this concept of communication.
Speaker:So, um, back in 2013 now, I was very lucky that I did a communication
Speaker:course, that it was sort of a pilot and it was being arranged by St.
Speaker:John's Hospice and Royal Central School of Speech and Drama.
Speaker:So it's looking very much at dramatic methods in improving communication.
Speaker:And it was based in the sort of principle, you know, if you're a great
Speaker:actor, you are a great communicator, that's what all great actors do.
Speaker:So I sort of, I did this course, cause it was a pilot was once a week
Speaker:and Wednesday nights for six weeks.
Speaker:So obviously actors and actresses did, they use a lot of games and they, they
Speaker:do not get to where they are becoming an incident in being deadly serious.
Speaker:You don't having PowerPoints, you know, if there's a lot of it,
Speaker:you listen up, you, you D so is it that, that became very much.
Speaker:At part of it.
Speaker:I know on the very last session of this, they talked about a start-up
Speaker:theater called forum theater, which I became, like, it just resonated
Speaker:with the first time I heard about it.
Speaker:And it's a style of theater which was created really in the fifties
Speaker:by a man called Augustus Bullough, who was at the time in Brazil.
Speaker:And it was really using theater to explore insoluble problems
Speaker:and drive social change.
Speaker:So it wasn't as that as a matter of entertainment.
Speaker:And, you know, they, they, they used, he used it in Brazil, which
Speaker:was sort of for political reasons.
Speaker:They were under very right-wing Gentoo at the time, but it can
Speaker:be taken in lots of context.
Speaker:And the way it works is you created a small, uh, sort of pace,
Speaker:which, you know, you can chew to a community and the unbearable, the
Speaker:lead character, and this people will identify with them for many reasons.
Speaker:And actually the lead character ends up in this set piece, doing badly,
Speaker:you know, not getting what they want, being crushed by the system.
Speaker:And then, in the theater piece, you, a member of the, the sort
Speaker:of company gets the audience to really discuss what they're seeing.
Speaker:So the member of the company is a facilitator and he gets people to discuss.
Speaker:And it's keeps on asking the question, could that?
Speaker:person have behaved differently to change things?
Speaker:And then after the discussion, you replay the piece, but you invite the
Speaker:audience up to be the lead character.
Speaker:And they try to get people to, to, to change their behavior.
Speaker:And it's more than role play, because everybody in the, in
Speaker:the past has as prepared for it.
Speaker:And they're prepared for it, again, go back to fund the games, there are
Speaker:a lot of these acting techniques.
Speaker:They believe in the character that they're playing on.
Speaker:Why that characters believe it, behaving that way.
Speaker:But it's very much that if you really work at it, sometimes you can just do
Speaker:something and that person will change.
Speaker:So it's a very playful way of exploring problems.
Speaker:So, so really to begin with, this resonated with me and I
Speaker:became very invested in this and I'm very interested in it.
Speaker:And then I was lucky enough to.
Speaker:Really do several workshops that, that we didin the sort of in the department,
Speaker:the first with the Cardboard Citizens forum theater company, which is sort of
Speaker:a Ciara homeless charity, but they're sort of a professional company who do it.
Speaker:And then we did some others with the Central School of Speech and
Speaker:Drama, and and we worked on that.
Speaker:And then we just quite big projects and that.
Speaker:But then when I got to the stage when I really began to think of
Speaker:wellbeing and I wanted to bring it in and could I, how, like how could
Speaker:I sort of really focus on that?
Speaker:I had noted that, particularly even doing the warmup games and a lot of these, these
Speaker:games that, that just sort of don't do in theater environments, which were maybe
Speaker:alien to somebody from a very scientific medical background, but these games
Speaker:are to just get people to relax and to energize them and connect with each other.
Speaker:I suppose, one of the things that's to turn individuals into an ensemble cast.
Speaker:And I'd really felt that actually, during all these workshops and we were doing
Speaker:these people loved to play these games.
Speaker:They, you just laughed and the back to being a child, again.
Speaker:People really connected and they were one of the things that people love doing.
Speaker:So when I was at a stage of, I wanted to introduce more something with
Speaker:wellbeing into the workplace, but I didn't want to just talk about it.
Speaker:I wanted to make it a real thing, I realized, basically, I was always
Speaker:looking for places or ways to do it.
Speaker:And I realized we had 10 minute teaching slots every day,
Speaker:which we were very clinical.
Speaker:We talked about a guideline, et cetera, but these pitching
Speaker:slots, some of them were empty.
Speaker:So I thought, well, I could take some of these over and do something but wellbeing.
Speaker:And then I thought, actually, we could just be one of these games, or two
Speaker:of these games in that 10 minutes, and then begin to see how it goes.
Speaker:So, so that was really the start of bringing them into the workplace,
Speaker:and trying to get people to just do them at the start of the day.
Speaker:Will the connect people at the start of the shift, will they do that?
Speaker:And really from that, that I suppose really it was about getting the games to
Speaker:get people, to connect with themselves and each other in a very sort of way that
Speaker:made them laugh and an energizing way.
Speaker:Just to see if that, if that could be brought into, to us as part of the day to
Speaker:day, or maybe not, it wasn't as much as every day, but it was part of the kind of
Speaker:fabric or the pattern of the workplace.
Speaker:That's exactly it isn't it it's often the challenge, um, to do exactly that,
Speaker:to bring it into more of the day-to-day practice that you're talking about.
Speaker:It's easier as a, as an organization to say, oh, we like this idea of more playful
Speaker:ways of working or, you know, let's, let's spend a half day doing this together.
Speaker:And it's so great and you see amazing things happen.
Speaker:And then it's back to business as usual the next day, and
Speaker:it sort of doesn't live on.
Speaker:So how can you really weave it into, as you say, the fabric of the task, the day
Speaker:to day, um, ways of working is it's not an easy feat, but it sounds like you've,
Speaker:you've made some amazing progress on that.
Speaker:And could you give some examples of some of the results that you've seen, kind
Speaker:of working with this idea of playfulness with, you know, teams of doctors
Speaker:and nurses and other medical staff?
Speaker:What have you seen kind of come out of those, those playful practices with those
Speaker:teams in terms of results and impact?
Speaker:Well, I suppose if there's several things.
Speaker:So I have always taken feedback from it, and then probably the, the time I
Speaker:was able to get them was interesting bit of feedback was, we were doing
Speaker:it for 10 minutes once a week.
Speaker:And then back in 2018 it was pre pandemic.
Speaker:So we got 110 members of staff were given a day.
Speaker:And on that actually gives a piece of cohesive feedback.
Speaker:And that was spread over February and March, and really what we did
Speaker:at the end of that day, we we asked people to, there's a thing called
Speaker:the Edinburgh Warwick wellness score.
Speaker:So we just said, can you score yourselves?
Speaker:Um, it's out of 10.
Speaker:The full score has 14 positively worded sort of describers of wellbeing.
Speaker:We use seven cause they were applicable to today and it seems like how
Speaker:energized you feel, how connected you feel, how cheerful do you feel?
Speaker:And we asked everybody to, um, score themselves.
Speaker:And over 80% scored themselves eight or more out of 10.
Speaker:So that, that was, that was quite impressive.
Speaker:And it's something like, I think cheerfulness, you know, 33%, which is
Speaker:a third, gave themselves 10 out of 10.
Speaker:So sometimes I go, well, if I never achieved anything else in my life for
Speaker:one day, I may, you know, one day, you know, but during that time that
Speaker:people pretend that 10 and cheerful.
Speaker:Um, somebody then said, well, did it affect sickness rates?
Speaker:Again, I felt, I don't know, but when we looked at sickness rates that those
Speaker:days were held in February and March, we looked at secondary threats and the April
Speaker:and we compared them to the year before.
Speaker:And the sentence rates were reduced by 33%.
Speaker:Now, again, you can never say that that was due to those days.
Speaker:There are so many variables, but I still think it was an
Speaker:interesting thing to pick up.
Speaker:Um, and I think it is worth looking at a bit more closely.
Speaker:Um, so I think that was having very, if you like, quantitative data or
Speaker:some measurable data, which is what people want when they asked you if you
Speaker:want to know, they want you to say.
Speaker:Everybody wants you to say, I can tell you it it's it's this quantitative data.
Speaker:I think as time goes on know, sometimes I think, again, it goes back to this
Speaker:idea, you know, is this relational or is it transactional because quantitative
Speaker:data is a little bit transactional, or we do there's some, we get this back.
Speaker:Relational wise, I remember after doing those days, and I'm not busy with my own
Speaker:team of people that I know quite well, I then by whole sequence of events, ended up
Speaker:doing it as part of a workshop at a, at a conference, which was, I think the Academy
Speaker:of Medical Educators in Cardiff in 2018.
Speaker:And I'd sort of agreed to do this as a workshop.
Speaker:Uh, and I really, as the time grew close, I was very anxious about this.
Speaker:Um, and they, I remember it was hailed and, um, it was in Cardiff.
Speaker:So it was in their sort of big art in drama and music college.
Speaker:So I went done to date and I remember being really
Speaker:anxious before I had to do it.
Speaker:And we went upstairs and I was actually in a drama studio.
Speaker:So I remember thinking if there's more, it was like almost a
Speaker:nightmare of imposter syndrome.
Speaker:Because suddenly I was finding myself in a drama studio doing this
Speaker:drama workshop, and the little voice in my head was going but you're a
Speaker:doctor, what are you doing here?
Speaker:And, um, the, the room beside the all, all the studios were named after
Speaker:very, um, sort of famous, uh, Welsh performers and uh, and uh, the one
Speaker:beside me was the Shirley Bassey.
Speaker:So I remember thinking, right, I've still never thought I have to channel my
Speaker:inner Shirley Bassey kind of diva now.
Speaker:And, and everybody come into the room and, and these were people I did not know.
Speaker:I had never met any of these people that all signed up for this workshop.
Speaker:There's this 15 people.
Speaker:One of my people I grew up with had come with me.
Speaker:In fact, she was in the room, so to take photos and help me out a bit.
Speaker:And it was, it was very stressful.
Speaker:I could actually see some people were a bit like, what are you talking about?
Speaker:But, but the end of it, they had all bonded.
Speaker:And, and one of them said to me, It's very powerful.
Speaker:I thought it was a load of nonsense, but it really works.
Speaker:And I think since I've done workshops, I've seen that again and again
Speaker:and again, and, um, there is just something wonderful about standing
Speaker:in a room full of everybody laughing.
Speaker:And you do see at the end of that time, people build boned, people will connect.
Speaker:You, you will begin to see something happening between people when you do it.
Speaker:The other example, I think at the time works the very strange example, and maybe
Speaker:this is my own positive self-talk coming, but, um, I, I did it with our nursing
Speaker:staff, um, one, one day I just, it was just a, this was just a short, one of
Speaker:the short 10 minute sessions at work.
Speaker:And at the end of it, one of the members of staff said to me, I really
Speaker:think it's nice that you're trying to do this to help us, but I just
Speaker:think it's a little bit of rubbish.
Speaker:So tell us, obviously, this is not what you want to hear.
Speaker:And then you think, okay.
Speaker:And I said, okay, I didn't.
Speaker:I said that, I said, that's fine.
Speaker:You were like, think it's a load of rubbish.
Speaker:You know, that, that people are like now.
Speaker:Then he, we sat in that room.
Speaker:And he talked to me for quite a long period of time and
Speaker:he said, I'm really fed up.
Speaker:You know, I'm disillusioned, I'm this, uh, I'm on a whole lot of reasons,
Speaker:and I don't want to, I've decided I'm going to give up my job for a while.
Speaker:I don't want to, but this is what I think needs to be done.
Speaker:And he told me everything and then we talked about it.
Speaker:And we talked for about 45 minutes.
Speaker:And then I went back to my office and I remember thinking, oh well,
Speaker:you can't win them all kind of ideas.
Speaker:And I thought well, again, this goes back to this idea, this desire to measure.
Speaker:And you want to measure, and you won't see, my measure is at
Speaker:works and everybody's happier.
Speaker:But you know, I'm not saying I'm making people happier.
Speaker:And I know some of it goes back to this idea that you
Speaker:can't make individuals happy.
Speaker:And I'm actually really, I thought, well, actually, maybe, uh, as a sort
Speaker:of measure, it only hasn't worked.
Speaker:If I'm only measuring, I'm making people happy.
Speaker:But then if I look at it another way and say, you know, th this is a
Speaker:new member of staff, it is somebody who is theoretically junior to me.
Speaker:But obviously I had created an environment where they felt comfortable
Speaker:enough to say to me, what you're is a complete waste of time and stupid.
Speaker:And actually that, you know, this comes into this concept of the workplace.
Speaker:If you talk a lot about psychological safety.
Speaker:Do you feel comfortable with speaking up?
Speaker:Do you feel comfortable that you'd be listened to?
Speaker:And I thought, well, actually, maybe this is a sign that it does
Speaker:work because actually, you know, that that's what you really want.
Speaker:You know, you, you, nobody can make everybody happy every moment of every
Speaker:day, and actually, we don't want to make people happy all the time.
Speaker:That's, that's not how you grow in life and move forward.
Speaker:You know, nobody can go on, you know.
Speaker:What you're looking for is, is creating an environment or a culture where people
Speaker:feel, feel able to just be honest and open and people feel able to confront things.
Speaker:So I thought actually I think, and it's an odd way, although that determined
Speaker:similar to rubbish, I felt like after saying oh you know it's not as of a load
Speaker:of rubbish as you think it is, because if it was that much a load of rubbish,
Speaker:you wouldn't have been sitting there telling me it was a load of rubbish.
Speaker:You'd have just gone out of the room.
Speaker:So I think sometimes I think that was, in its odd way, one of the
Speaker:biggest signs to me that it works.
Speaker:I really love that because in our work, when I'm putting to work
Speaker:with, with Playfilled, as you say, people want quantitative data.
Speaker:They want to say, you know, what percentage increase I'm going to
Speaker:see in this KPI, in that metric.
Speaker:And you know what?
Speaker:I absolutely get it.
Speaker:And I want to be able to give that information and that data.
Speaker:But so much of this.
Speaker:In tangible and very difficult to quantify and package up.
Speaker:And what we often find is play and engaging in playfulness between colleagues
Speaker:and between just the humans, other people, it won't always lead to one outcome.
Speaker:It will be different depending on the individual and the group.
Speaker:And as you say, it can be that these had a great time in that moment, and it was
Speaker:a moment of mindfulness, as you said.
Speaker:It can be that they've connected with someone.
Speaker:They can be that you've created that environment of psychological safety.
Speaker:It can be that it just starts a conversation that, that
Speaker:wouldn't have started otherwise.
Speaker:You can't say do this and you'll get that outcome, which is, I think amazingly
Speaker:powerful and magical, but can also be quite challenging to almost kind of
Speaker:convince someone else because they want to know what's going to happen if I do this,
Speaker:and it's a little bit, I'm not quite sure.
Speaker:It's, it's, I'm pretty sure it's gonna be a good thing, but it might be a
Speaker:seed that is planted or a conversation that has had that might've happened
Speaker:before, but you can't dictate and channel it in one particular way.
Speaker:And that's sometimes I think the answer, you know, sometimes if I even had to
Speaker:say, okay, Well, what if nothing happens?
Speaker:Okay but what if we do it and absolutely nothing happens?
Speaker:Because the reality is, you know, you have to say, does every single other thing
Speaker:that I've ever done in the workplace, does it always something happening?
Speaker:You know, and I think, I think that is quite important in that I've had
Speaker:to start vocalizing, um, or something else that I quite liked the I sort
Speaker:of a, a slide that I use at the end of talks comes from a few years ago.
Speaker:I stayed in Venice on it was, um, I said my hotel room, another side of
Speaker:the grand canal, there was a sort of statue that was quite, uh, uh, a big
Speaker:statue of, uh, what looked like a man holding up a ruler up to the sky.
Speaker:And I sort of, I saw it every day and it was very striking.
Speaker:And you think oh, what is that?
Speaker:So I Googled it, um, on, uh, I found out it's called the
Speaker:Man Who Measures the Clouds.
Speaker:and actually what the, the sort of artist said, was that was a kind of his idea
Speaker:of how do you measure the unmeasurable.
Speaker:And her has sort of a answer, was it was creativity is how
Speaker:you measure the unmeasurable.
Speaker:And I think there is something again to do with that.
Speaker:You know, we, we are in the world of the intangible and you know, I'm
Speaker:on one hand, I understand the need for metrics and evidence, but I also
Speaker:think you have to also understand that not everything can be measured,
Speaker:but it shouldn't be automatically discounted because our measures haven't
Speaker:become good enough to measure it.
Speaker:You know, and that how do you measure that people have connected?
Speaker:How do you measure that people stood up and said something that
Speaker:they wouldn't normally have said?
Speaker:How do you measure that people felt a bit braver?
Speaker:And it's the same way you don't come out of the theater and immediately
Speaker:say, well, I saw King Lear and that has made me reassess my role as a father.
Speaker:You, that that is not how these things work.
Speaker:So, so I think it's finding the balance, but between those two worlds, really.
Speaker:Uh, yes.
Speaker:Preach.
Speaker:I could let you continue on that train all day.
Speaker:I couldn't agree more, but you, you mentioned a little earlier about your own.
Speaker:Kind of experience of bringing more playfulness into the medical profession
Speaker:and the medical environments.
Speaker:and that's been a bit of a journey, but it sounds of it, that you had moments
Speaker:of real anxiety and nervousness around doing this, uh, which I absolutely
Speaker:empathize with, but that you've grown in confidence the more you've done.
Speaker:I'd love to hear more about yes, your own journey as a leader, in bringing play
Speaker:into the workplace and how that's felt.
Speaker:I think it felt, um, I started, as I say, doing it the 10 at 10 sessions.
Speaker:Um, so that was 10 minutes.
Speaker:Um, and you know, as I've always said, you know, this is the very first time I
Speaker:did that and I came up with that idea.
Speaker:I was working at the time as one of our practice development nurses,
Speaker:uh, who, who, who had done the workshops, she knew the games.
Speaker:Um, and I was, I said to her, will you do the games?
Speaker:And she said, yes, I remember the night before, you know, I was quite restless
Speaker:because I thought oh my goodness, I'm, you know, I'm going to do this tomorrow.
Speaker:Am I mad?
Speaker:I had this idea.
Speaker:I made her go in and do it and I didn't do it myself and the department slightly
Speaker:hyper anxious thinking something's going to happen and then I'm going
Speaker:to have to explain that I've sent people around the back to play a game.
Speaker:And I was very anxious and then it all happened and everybody come out and they
Speaker:were laughing and then none of is fine.
Speaker:So I started to do it, and then as I say, I did the, the day where we got,
Speaker:you know, we did it as days and we got everybody, you know, a day age.
Speaker:And that was, that was sort of a as part of the study days.
Speaker:Um, then I, I did, I did it at a conference, so that, that was
Speaker:very much the first time I went to somewhere new and did it with a
Speaker:group of people I didn't really know before and I'd never met before.
Speaker:Um, then I use that and I designed a, a kind of workshop for half day workshop
Speaker:that I did for the organization.
Speaker:And, and the again, I got different new people.
Speaker:I was, I began to be asked to different organizations to do it.
Speaker:So each time I got better.
Speaker:I got more comfortable doing it.
Speaker:I got better.
Speaker:I suppose I began to believe in it a bit more.
Speaker:So I think I was, you know, to begin with, I was always anxious that it would be,
Speaker:it would be awful and it wouldn't work.
Speaker:And then people would be, I don't know, just be awful.
Speaker:And then I just began to trust myself a bit more each time I
Speaker:did it, and I began to do that.
Speaker:I also think the other way I had to grow with it was I had
Speaker:to change it and adapt it.
Speaker:So it was very much to begin with a lot of game playing.
Speaker:Um, when the pandemic hit, obviously I remember that the very beginning
Speaker:thinking, well, this is no, yeah.
Speaker:I kind of can't do this in a pandemic kind of idea, this is, you know,
Speaker:it's all very well talking about wellbeing, but now we're wellbeing in
Speaker:the midst of this huge pandemic and I didn't really know how to proceed.
Speaker:And then I thought, well, I do have to do something.
Speaker:Um, at that time I decided I wouldn't do games for several reasons, but what
Speaker:I me and mum being that they required people to be very close together.
Speaker:And obviously you have to socially distance.
Speaker:So there was a, there was an element that you couldn't do that.
Speaker:Um, but, but what I was able to do was, uh, you know, I read that British
Speaker:Psychological Society had had guidelines of how to support your team in a
Speaker:pandemic, and one of them was create a space for people can, can feel open
Speaker:about to express and how they feel.
Speaker:So what I was able to do is I was able to run the wellbeing sessions where
Speaker:people could be sort of spaced and then ask people to talk about how they felt.
Speaker:And then what I did, I did it, you know, short period of time, but then I
Speaker:got paid to do was draw how they felt.
Speaker:So again, that, that continued that same kind of of playfulness really.
Speaker:And actually find out that that drawing how you feel, it was very powerful people.
Speaker:People, people, sometimes we were able to express much more
Speaker:eloquently in their pictures than the were in words, how they felt.
Speaker:And actually if you suddenly drew a picture and then everybody
Speaker:looked at it, it seemed to be able to resonate in a way that, that
Speaker:sometimes words didn't resonate.
Speaker:And it was a very interesting way of doing it.
Speaker:So, so I, I did that, um, that, that was really during the
Speaker:first wave of the pandemic.
Speaker:The second wave of the pandemic.
Speaker:Which I'd probably say around December, December 2020,
Speaker:January, 2021, in the emergency department, we were very busy then.
Speaker:Um, and we, we couldn't even, we could be that things have changed again.
Speaker:So we couldn't really have everybody to go on even have these 20 minutes to sit and
Speaker:do that, that, that wasn't even possible.
Speaker:But I still think I try to bring that sort of connection into the day.
Speaker:And I S I started by, at the beginning of the shift, just this, the really
Speaker:simple thing that became very powerful.
Speaker:It just getting people to take on their mask for a moment, say their name and
Speaker:what the role was in the department.
Speaker:And there was something again about that slight connecting with each other that
Speaker:became, became, I felt very important to people just, just that you start the day
Speaker:off connecting and, um, you made it, you, you saved, you, you held a space for about
Speaker:two minutes to get people to connect.
Speaker:Um, and then idea as time's gone on, I've done that.
Speaker:I've maintained doing that and I've never, I started a shift then
Speaker:it's my, I do that with people.
Speaker:Um, and sometimes.
Speaker:I will throw out these kinds of icebreaker questions as well, to get people to
Speaker:talk about if they'd one last meal on earth to eat, what would it be etc?
Speaker:And I think these questions are quite interesting to us, but you know, it's that
Speaker:slightly playful way to start the day.
Speaker:But you know, you, you do get you getting people to talk about food
Speaker:anyway is this really a no very emotive way to get people to bond.
Speaker:Um, I think I read an interview with the new Grace Dent who does that podcast
Speaker:Comfort Food and she gets celebrities to talk and she said if you get people
Speaker:to talk about food, it takes them somewhere very quickly than actually
Speaker:getting them to talk about other things.
Speaker:You do bond.
Speaker:So, so I've tried to introduce little things like that, um, you know,
Speaker:during the time of moving forward.
Speaker:And constantly trying to find ways of both expanding into bigger things.
Speaker:So I now, you know, I created a device with a communications coerce,
Speaker:so I bring a lot of it into that.
Speaker:So there's something that would bring it into that arena and I'm changing
Speaker:it slightly, but also finding little, teeny, tiny ways to just get it into
Speaker:your daily day to day activities.
Speaker:I think there's so much you shared.
Speaker:Around this idea of starting with quite small steps.
Speaker:So it's not that you woke up one morning and thought, right,
Speaker:this is, this is my mission.
Speaker:And I'm going to go gung ho.
Speaker:It was much more about, you know, you do a course, you do a session.
Speaker:You, you kind of, you're taking small steps, you're experimenting as you go.
Speaker:So that's something kind of heartening to hear.
Speaker:And I also had there about putting yourself out of your conference.
Speaker:Was key is that tons of real anxiety, as you were saying, not sure of how
Speaker:to be received, but to kind of put yourself out of your comfort zone.
Speaker:And also getting feedback as to how it is learning for people.
Speaker:And as you say, you're never going to please other people at the time.
Speaker:But being led by people, asking for it and, and getting that feedback to kind
Speaker:of take you further on the journey.
Speaker:And also this idea of adapting to what is needed at the time.
Speaker:And I love the idea of when you're faced with the challenges of the
Speaker:pandemic, you couldn't just continue as it is, but you could adapt and
Speaker:still bring in the principles.
Speaker:And I love that you kind of create even a small amount of time and
Speaker:space for this connection stuff.
Speaker:That that's, what's really powerful from what you've said, is it, it can just
Speaker:be a few minutes or a micro practice of taking a mass down and saying her name,
Speaker:but the impact can be really out-sized.
Speaker:But I think so many learnings from what you've just shared there.
Speaker:You were in journey.
Speaker:What do you think are the conditions for play to happen?
Speaker:What needs to be in place for true play, to occur in an
Speaker:organizational setting, do you think?
Speaker:Again, you know, I remember before I started to do this, I remind even before
Speaker:I have the idea to start to do this, I remember there was a vogue for a period
Speaker:of time that we were being told in the NHS, we should be more like it was Google.
Speaker:And Google are like, they are the organization I think everybody
Speaker:thinks everybody, everybody references Google, and then the
Speaker:NHS should be more like Google.
Speaker:And then you'd immediately start talking about, you know, the way Google
Speaker:looks, the big slide, do you know?
Speaker:There's always that picture of the big slide as, as reference.
Speaker:They've got the big slide and on the canteen where everybody wants to be.
Speaker:So we'd all sit around and talk about Google and we had this well
Speaker:it's all very well for Google, they've got the big slide, etc.
Speaker:Um, and then you would just completely discount the idea.
Speaker:Now I do believe environment is important.
Speaker:So I'm not saying don't focus on your environment.
Speaker:I think environment is very important and I think, again, someone like the
Speaker:NHS that there's a lot being done at a time to improve the environment.
Speaker:But probably what I would also say is, yes I think that's a good thing to
Speaker:work on, but I don't think you should think that has to be in place before
Speaker:you can start bringing in play, really.
Speaker:Because I think if you sort of think, oh, well, we don't have the, we don't have
Speaker:the big slide and all those things, um, and the brightly colored seats, then, then
Speaker:there's absolutely no point until they get there, so we're just going to give
Speaker:up on this idea, I think is important.
Speaker:You know, I think probably after time, this is something I'm quite clear idea.
Speaker:I think you need somebody to champion it, at least one person.
Speaker:I think you need to, if you are championing it, decide you are going
Speaker:to hold a time and a space to do it in.
Speaker:And I think you need to say, we will hold a time and a space to do it in.
Speaker:And I think there's something.
Speaker:Actually standing up and saying, I am holding this time and this space
Speaker:now, and I'm doing it in this point.
Speaker:And if all you've got us two minutes, then all you've got is two minutes then, but
Speaker:then stand up and hold that two minutes.
Speaker:I think there's something as time's gone on, uh, I've certainly begun to understand
Speaker:that something I didn't really understand before, but I've begun to understand more
Speaker:and more the, the role of a facilitator.
Speaker:I think that was something that I never, maybe if you rewind the clock
Speaker:completely thought about or understood, but I think you need to hold a time
Speaker:and space and I think you need a facilitator to then, to then run the
Speaker:session because I think that's, it needs to be a facilitated session.
Speaker:Really.
Speaker:Um, and I think the facilitator themselves, they need to believe in
Speaker:what they're doing, kind of idea.
Speaker:So, so for example, you know, one of the things that I did along with the testing
Speaker:done the masks in the morning is I asked the night team that are leaving to tell
Speaker:me two positive things about the nature.
Speaker:And as I say, I think that's a really good thing to do, because
Speaker:I think it's important that people go home with a positive memory.
Speaker:But you have to believe in on that question, because if you sort of say,
Speaker:all right, well, they're all looking like it's been a dreadful night and you
Speaker:go, okay, well just tell me two good things, you, it's not going to work.
Speaker:You have to really sit there and have the confidence to say, okay, I know
Speaker:this has been really dreadful for you.
Speaker:And you're not going to want to do this, and you're going to start off by
Speaker:resisting me, but let's all take a nice deep breath and just give me, and you
Speaker:have to be a bit playful when you do it.
Speaker:People will give you one thing and then you say, come on, dig deep,
Speaker:one other thing and, and do it.
Speaker:And I think it's the same with all these practices.
Speaker:So if you everybody's there and they're stressed and you say, right, we're going
Speaker:into turbine night and we're playing a game, you have to be prepared that in
Speaker:the room and then the group, some people will be, yes I want to play The game.
Speaker:Other people will be anxious.
Speaker:Some people will be angry and you actually have to really just
Speaker:go, we are going to do this.
Speaker:And, and I believe that if we do this together, we will come out the
Speaker:other end and our debt will be, um, you know, you will, you will feel
Speaker:better if you like and doing this.
Speaker:So I think probably what you need is you need to decide you're going to do it.
Speaker:You need somebody to champion it.
Speaker:You need to be very clear.
Speaker:You're holding a time and space to do it, and you'll do it regularly.
Speaker:You need to believe in it.
Speaker:If you need to have to have that person to facilitate it, or have
Speaker:a facilitator who believes in it.
Speaker:And you have to accept that, you know, some days it will work better than others.
Speaker:Some days it will not seem to work at all.
Speaker:Other days it will really work stunningly well.
Speaker:And then some days it will be somewhere in between, but a thing, you know, I think
Speaker:that that's what you need to, you need to sort of have to get it into the workplace.
Speaker:And just as we start to move towards the end of a lonely conversation, are you able
Speaker:to share a playful practice that you use in your work or perhaps with others at
Speaker:work that our listeners sitting at home, could think about trying in the workplace?
Speaker:A small micro practice or behavior?
Speaker:Certainly.
Speaker:So, so what I would, first of all say is I'm a believer.
Speaker:Now, if you did an F you, you need to, to open that.
Speaker:So you did you, so, so quite often, if I'm doing anything, I will open it
Speaker:by, by going rind, getting everybody to stand in a circle and, um, go ride
Speaker:or sit in a circle if you're in a room and just say their name, a number
Speaker:out of 10 and how they're feeling.
Speaker:Um, they can expand opponent, but they can't, they can not, if you don't want to.
Speaker:Sometimes you can add in, and you know, you can, you are
Speaker:kind of variations in that.
Speaker:And you can say if you were type of weather, whether would you be?
Speaker:Sometimes you can use that to ask your, if you'd one last meal nurse
Speaker:to eight foot book do, but I think it's very important to ask that sort
Speaker:of question and get everybody to say their name and on how they're feeling.
Speaker:And this is interesting because quite often what happens is.
Speaker:And a lot of groups you will find, there is one surprisingly happy
Speaker:person in that group, which which takes everybody, even myself.
Speaker:Cause, cause to be honest, I normally I'm starting off a six and a seven, but there
Speaker:will be, some are surprisingly person will say, well, I'm, I'm a nine or I'm a, and
Speaker:everybody will look at them and think, oh my goodness, you know, what is it on?
Speaker:If somebody is a four, they will say before, I never put the, and I think
Speaker:even being, being able to say I'm a four, I've never put any looking at them,
Speaker:sympathetically, it's quite a good level.
Speaker:So I, so I think it's quite important that you go in and you
Speaker:say, right, this is where we are.
Speaker:And I think that sets the scene.
Speaker:We're now in the world of feelings, that that's.
Speaker:Then what I do, which is very interesting is I personally, and
Speaker:I, I've a great believer in this.
Speaker:I get people to shake.
Speaker:So I get everybody to stand up and I get them to follow me, and I shake one hand
Speaker:five times the other five times, one leg five times ever leg five times, and clap.
Speaker:And I go 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
Speaker:And Yeah.
Speaker:it was, it was, I saw somebody else do this.
Speaker:It was, it was the nurse.
Speaker:I used to work on Jo, when we did it, she found it from somewhere.
Speaker:Uh, and there was something quite magical happened about that process when you
Speaker:you've watched people go and do that.
Speaker:And there was something about the clapping and the noise and, and
Speaker:you really felt it took you from one place into another place.
Speaker:And then I read after we'd been doing it, the checking
Speaker:is a very healthy thing to do.
Speaker:I think someone's written a book called Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers, and it's
Speaker:all to do with shaking is a kind of an animal practice to, when animals are
Speaker:stressed or zebras are chased by a lion, the first thing they do is they shake
Speaker:and that sort of recalibrate the kind of hypothalamus pituitary function.
Speaker:So actually there's a scientific basis to it.
Speaker:And then around the same time I read about, and there was some time to be
Speaker:checking yoga, and then somebody said, oh yeah, my girlfriend did the shake in
Speaker:yoga, but they got a lot of shaking them.
Speaker:So, so I do that.
Speaker:So I talk about that quite a lot.
Speaker:Um, then I think one of the sort of next steps, practices to do is
Speaker:if you want to it's the drawing one that I sometimes find is an easy one.
Speaker:And again, what I do is I always start off by saying you can draw,
Speaker:and you pick something simple.
Speaker:We always pick a cat because it's a sort of simple shape.
Speaker:And I was because I work at the Whittington.
Speaker:It's a cop is, are like a logo kind of thing.
Speaker:Cause if do your mascot.
Speaker:So, um, I I'm asking for answers and you get people draw a
Speaker:cat with your dominant hand.
Speaker:And then do it with your non-dominant hand and they're draw it with your eyes closed.
Speaker:And that's quite an interesting one to take people through.
Speaker:Because lots of people are scared of drilling and under scared of being
Speaker:drawing, there's got to be judged, they're scared of not being able to do something,
Speaker:they're scared of looking silly.
Speaker:So they're always a bit nervous.
Speaker:And actually when you draw with your non-dominant hand, it does
Speaker:seem to free you from that a bit.
Speaker:And although your drones are all a bit more crooked or they seem
Speaker:to level everybody's drawings out.
Speaker:And also pimple, you just seem to be more alive and more quirky.
Speaker:So then as soon as people do that, they relax into it.
Speaker:And then you can say, um, drove with your eyes closed.
Speaker:And then that leads to this whole, we'll just say, or zip on the surreal
Speaker:Cassa will look and they call them cots.
Speaker:And so I'll strange and unlike that.
Speaker:So I think that, you know, and anybody can do that.
Speaker:You just need a pan on a page.
Speaker:And then if you do that, I have sometimes taken it on from, you know, draw me
Speaker:what, you know, how you're feeling today?
Speaker:Or draw me and you can do it with your right hand, your left.
Speaker:You can decide you need to play around with that.
Speaker:You know, draw them.
Speaker:If you, if there's something you want at this moment.
Speaker:Um, you know, one year I did.
Speaker:No, I did it once I was asked to do a workshop and it was, it
Speaker:wasn't this Christmas, but it was the button before and it was draw
Speaker:me what you want for Christmas.
Speaker:And then there was, there was, there was quite a lovely paper talking about them.
Speaker:It's just lovely range of drawings from somebody just wanted COVID to go
Speaker:away and somebody's drawing, and then somebody else wanted um, a glug jug.
Speaker:And everyone's going what's that?
Speaker:It's one of those jugs that glug, you know.
Speaker:There's something quite sweet about this idea that again, all these little
Speaker:things that people share, they become very connecting and bonding, and they're
Speaker:just a kind of a starting point and everybody laughs and everybody relaxes.
Speaker:So I think that's a very simple way.
Speaker:And you could do that at the beginning of that, you could do that at the
Speaker:beginning of just any meeting.
Speaker:It'll take about five to 10 minutes and then you can move in to discussing what
Speaker:you need to move into in the meeting.
Speaker:But it's just, it's just moved you into a slightly different way of doing it.
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:The word users now, which I love to move you from one place into another.
Speaker:It's exactly what play does.
Speaker:Um, and this beautiful wording.
Speaker:I want to continue, but I'm going to respect your time and
Speaker:stop the conversation there.
Speaker:It's been such a pleasure, such an enlivening and heartening and
Speaker:warming conversation with you, Heidi.
Speaker:Thank you so much for your time today.
Speaker:No problem.
Speaker:It's been lovely speaking to you too.
Speaker:I really liked this idea of fun and playfulness as ways of accessing qualities
Speaker:that are important to what you do.
Speaker:And she was talking about how as a doctor, you know, it's that.
Speaker:It's the humanity and it's the, the ability to connect with patients
Speaker:with each other that is so important.
Speaker:And also just, just the bravery of doing something like this in a setting
Speaker:where it's not the obvious thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I love how she saw and felt acknowledged that creativity was
Speaker:important to her as a, as a person.
Speaker:Um, she talks about her creative writing as a, as a sort of practice,
Speaker:and how she really thought, how can creativity, this important thing to me,
Speaker:inform my work, and enrich my practice, in my kind of professional world?
Speaker:So I love the, the bridge that she built for herself.
Speaker:I loved when she was describing playing games at the start of
Speaker:a shift to help people connect.
Speaker:You know, that's so simple and the, this 10, I think it wasn't every day.
Speaker:It was like once a week sometimes, but just bringing it into, she
Speaker:described it as the fabric and the pattern of work and the impact of
Speaker:that, I just thought was amazing.
Speaker:And, you know, the, the effect of just simply removing your mask and showing
Speaker:each other, your faces, how powerful, just tiny things like that can be
Speaker:in connecting us as human beings.
Speaker:It was definitely that theme of small steps and small interventions
Speaker:that I found really inspiring in this conversation, how she talks
Speaker:about following her own curiosities.
Speaker:You know, she takes us right back to 2013 when she began, you know,
Speaker:taking these kind of theater workshops and kind of evening classes
Speaker:that were just her own curiosity.
Speaker:There was no kind of strategy behind it.
Speaker:And she was just learning new methods, taking small steps, trying something
Speaker:new and small one bit at a time.
Speaker:And I just love that idea of she had her expectations.
Speaker:She was learning by doing, she would learn a bit of something new, some new, um,
Speaker:practices, and then she would share them with others and then gauge the impact and
Speaker:then let that guide her to the next step.
Speaker:And she talked about how by doing this kind of step by step, following her
Speaker:curiosity, she learned to really trust herself, but it was a real, it's been
Speaker:a real journey, you know, over the past sort of six plus years of just trying
Speaker:something new and small one bit at a time.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that, that journey to trusting herself and the importance of having that
Speaker:confidence when you are holding this work.
Speaker:So believing in yourself and believing in the benefits of it in
Speaker:order to be able to bring people on a similar journey with you.
Speaker:but also being really open about, she talks about the imposter syndrome that
Speaker:she was feeling at times, you know, the inner voice saying, you know,
Speaker:you're a doctor, why are you here?
Speaker:You're not meant to be playful.
Speaker:And it just made me laugh, that inner voice really resonating with
Speaker:me and kind of, that judgment of, are you the right person to be, you
Speaker:know, inviting and encouraging others to open up to more playfulness?
Speaker:Um, I just loved her acknowledgement of, of those kind of those moments
Speaker:of doubt and anxiety that she faced, when sharing this work with others.
Speaker:I also found it really interesting what she was saying.
Speaker:The example she gave of the nurse who came and was like, I think this is all
Speaker:rubbish and really didn't enjoy the com enjoy the experience, but actually that
Speaker:not being that doesn't matter because you know, the conversation that ensued
Speaker:afterwards, it was, there was an openness, there was a trust that had clearly
Speaker:developed and how actually this can't all be measured, but, you know, she said it
Speaker:shouldn't automatically be discounted.
Speaker:And I think that's so true.
Speaker:There's value within this, like deep value that we can't always quantify and
Speaker:I think that's really important to hold.
Speaker:Thank you so much for listening today.
Speaker:If you enjoyed this episode, please do rate and review as it really
Speaker:helps us to reach other listeners.
Speaker:We're releasing episodes every two weeks, so do you hit Subscribe
Speaker:to ensure you don't miss out on more playful inspiration.
Speaker:Don't forget, you can find us at www.whyplayworks.com or
Speaker:wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker:And if you'd like to join our growing community of people United by the idea
Speaker:of at work, you can sign up to the Playworks Collective on the home page.
Speaker:If you have any ideas for future episodes topics you'd like to hear
Speaker:about guest suggestions or questions about the work we do with organizations,
Speaker:we would love to hear from you.
Speaker:Your feedback really matters to us.
Speaker:So please drop us a line at hello@whyplayworks.com.
Speaker:We'll be back in a fortnight with a brand new guest, and
